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What is clear is that for him, in both cases the same actor, namely NATO, or the US, is the force behind the overthrow of both regimes.

vineland swap meet bomb threat lausd

The revolutionary struggle of the Libya people play no role in his narrative, and even when he refers to "those who are the loudest advocates for these wars," he links to a NYTimes article by A. Well, the Libyan opposition was loudly advocating international support for their war, more than a month before Greenwald started writing about it, but he wasn't listening.

Like most in the anti-interventionist camp, Greewald probably thought that the air strikes were just a prelude to the NATO "boots on the ground" he was sure would be necessary to finish the job. Well, the Marines never landed on the shores of Tripoli this go round, but that won't stop the anti-interventionists from insisting that not only were they secretly there, but they were actually responsible for running the whole show.

The Libyans were just pawns in their game. They believed Qaddafi when he said they had captured 17 foreign special forces in Sirte, including a number of Frenchmen and Brits, video to follow. They believed the British PM when he sought to claimed credit for the Libyan victory.

Although they never comment on SAS operations and offered no proof in this case, he was believed by the anti-interventionists because that is what they wanted to hear. This Monday, Mahmoud Jabril gave an interview in Benghazi and said categorically: For them it was really the Rambo types that beat Qaddafi so that western oil interests could triumph, the Libya opposition, those that aren't paid agents, are just dupes.

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The problem with this mythology is that Libya is a free country now. Anyone can go pretty much where they please, hundred of newspapers have sprung up, the Internet is not shut down, and a great many Libya's are strongly opposed to any foreign attempts to hijack their revolution.

Remember when, early in the war, the Brits try to send in an SAS team to make contact and the thuwar arrested them? So it is very hard to believe a handful of western 'advisors' are really running the show and no Libyans are loudly complaining. Although nobody but Cynthia McKinney is claiming that thousands of US troops are in or heading for Libya, I find it amazing the levels to which the anti-interventions will sink to "prove" that their predictions of NATO "boots on the ground" have come to pass after all.

They simply can't bring themselves to say they were wrong.

vineland swap meet bomb threat lausd

While most fall back on the secret special forces theory, one commentator argued it this way: Yes, we don't have any infantry in Benghazi. But we did have US Pilots crash landing in Libya, and their boots were indeed on the ground. Is that what Greenwald was talking about when he talks about "invasion? Since Libyan victory, Greenwald has taken the tact of reporting only negative developments from Libya and warning of dire consequents to follow because Qaddafi was overthrown: There is nothing noble about invading and bombing a country into regime change if what one ushers in is mass instability along with tyranny and abuse by a different regime: So what are the Libyan revolutionaries?

What is the MSM saying? Lately we have seen a flurry of articles on Libya from the main stream media that the anti-interventionist will find delightful reading because they support their counter-revolutionary position.

Take, for example Derek Henry Flood's recent article in Asia Times, Arab Spring bleeds deeper into Africain which he blames the Libyan revolution for the current troubles in Mali, except like other anti-interventionists, he thinks NATO is the real force behind events. You know those Qaddafi mercenaries from sub-Saharan Africa that the thuwar complained about and the anti-interventionists insisted didn't exist?

Well, now that they have been defeated, forced out of Libya and returned to Mali flush with Russian weapons supplied by Qaddafi, Flood puts the blame for what is now happening in Mali of those that put an end to their killing in Libya.

Flood excuses the earlier denials of African mercenary involvement, saying: They seemed more "propaganda than fact" earlier, because they didn't fit the anti-interventionist narrative. Then he goes on to accuse the NTC of mental illness because their reality was different from his beliefs: Then he goes on to blame the revolution for the troubles in Mali: Weapons, material and men move easily across porous borders, poorly thought out regime-change scenarios are imposed from outside, and assorted strong men fall throughout the developing world.

Colonel Gaddafi did have foreign nationals fighting alongside his troops to be sure, but their role in the war is far from clearly understood. Would that be as understood by Derek Henry Flood? As understood by the by "the left"? Or as understood by the Libyan revolutionaries which as he correctly pointed out "that did observably entail Libyans of all hues? Because Qaddafi had a record of "stoking. You might counter, "well, its true. That aspect of the struggle isn't even on this writer's radar.

I would also add that a great many international forces "backed" the anti-Qaddafi forces. One could just as correctly refer to Libya's Egyptian and Tunisian backed revolution, Libya's Anonymous and WikiLeaks backed revolution, and so on. The rest of the sentence is even more of a gem, because the writer, having already gone to considerable efforts to cast doubts on the Libya opposition's claims about the number of foreign mercenaries in Libya, seeks to blame the Libyans for what these mercenaries have done since they were forced out.

Its like you got yourself out of an abusive relationship and now they are going to blame you for what your ex did to someone else after they left you.

This week both the NY Times and the Washington Post have piled on with articles highlighting only negative results of the revolution. The lesson to the masses: In this, they focus on the struggle around Tripoli's trash problems. As usual, their main concern is the armed workers: Anywhere but here, they say. And in post-revolution Libya, not-in-my-backyard fights come with automatic weapons. Clearly the WashPost is more comfortable with the usual situation were only the state has the firepower and they put the dump in whatever poor part of town suites them and the residents be damned.

This is what Qaddafi did. The old landfill — built by Gaddafi 11 years ago — generated complaints among residents that it polluted waterways and bred disease. Today, the NY Times published an article in which they worried: Libyan Militias Turn to Politics, a Volatile Mix They are concerned that the military leaders are getting into politics: The militia leader from Zintan who controls the airport here in the capital has exchanged his uniform for a suit and tie and now talks about running for office — with his 1, armed men at his back.

The complaint about military leaders running for political office is certainly a strange one coming from an American source. They cite a bourgeois source, Ali Tarhuni, a former interim oil minister and deputy prime minister, who is opposed to this trend: That is why there is no mention of this survey: Libyans increasingly confident about the future: While approximately 20 percent of respondents were confident or very confident at present, this rises to over 60 percent when asked about the next 12 months.

Levels of confidence in the longer term of 12 months were highest in regard to the economy and security. Only 25 percent of respondents were unsure about their confidence levels over the long term of 12 months, with respondents most unsure about transparency and politics.

Nor did they find the space to mention these items that may give a more balanced picture of what is going on in Libya: Eight thousand Sirte homes assessed for compensation Sirte, April 2: Some 8, homes in Sirte damaged or destroyed during the fighting last year have now been assessed for compensation.

Revolutionaries protecting oil fields turn professional Tripoli, April 1: The Libyan Ministry of Defense has announced more than eight thousand revolutionaries thuwar have been registered to be trained as border and vital strategic locations protection guards, These positive stories are coming out of Libya everyday but you won't hear about them from the MSM of the anti-interventionist turned counter-revolutionary because it doesn't fit their narrative.

What would Karl Marx think? Now examining the current situation in Libya from a Marxist perspective, meaning the state includes "bodies of armed men," the state exercises a monopoly of violence, political power grows out of the barrel of a gun, and so on. Taking all that on board: At a minimum, I should think that we can all agree on some basic facts about the Libyan situation: The old regime and organs of state power have been completely overthrown, including its armed forces.

The new state, i. Large and diverse sections of the Libyan working class are well armed and organized into what they call 'revolutionary brigades'. This is already what I would call a revolutionary situation. It is the place where the struggle between the revolutionaries and the regime went over to armed struggle to the point of civil war first.

It is the place where the old regime was defeated by a people's army and all the old institutions of state power have been completely abolished and must be recreated anew. They are just showing their cynical inclinations and lack of understanding of revolutionary war or war in general. The Unrepentant Marxist has just published an excellent piece on this question: Wars still aren't won from the air.

If they were, then certainly the US would be ruling Vietnam today. Could the Americans of have won without French support? I refuse to play those games. History is what history is. Revolutions require such "compromises" and they also require accepting support from non-revolutionary and even counter-revolutionary sources.

Those that refuse such compromise "on principal" are dilettantes not revolutionaries.

Clay Claiborne on the Daily Kos

NATO air support stopped Benghazi and Misrata from becoming scenes of mass murder like those we are presently witnessing in Homs and Idlib. Of course the dilettantes believe they should have gone it alone no matter how many Arab lives it would have cost, "if they were really serious", but then they didn't stand to lose anyone they loved in Benghazi.

As far as the effects of the NATO air war on the civilian population of Libya is concerned, we now have some credible numbers and I feel entirely acquitted in my support for their intervention. The UN did the most through report. They found 60 killed and 55 wounded. Due to the development of TTDSS, commissioners of Taiwan transportation executive now can display diverse theme maps and data on-line and implement various analysis functions to reach fateful government decisions.

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